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Adopting the my personal report about the children out-of Llywelyn Fawr and you may Joanna plus the solutions they gotten, I searched once more from genealogical users on the subject of Gwladus Ddu. While it is true, as several genealogists highlight, that on lack of unique research in some way, the newest name of your own mother out-of Gwladus Ddu must remain ‘unknown’, I discovered you don’t need to change my achievement one to their particular mother is Joanna and never Tangwystyl.
She kept not a problem from the Alexander II
You to definitely after that source on the subject of the youngsters is the following abstract throughout the ‘Leaders and you can Queens out-of Britain’ an authoritative book, authored by Oxford College Push, page 106:
‘Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth, b.1173, young buck from Iorwerth Drwyndwn (‘Flatnose’) and you will Marared, daughter out of Madog ap Maredudd; acc. eastern Gwynedd 1195; married Joan, illegitimate daughter from King John, 1205; issue: Gruffudd (illegitimate), Dafydd, Gwenllian, Helen, Gwladus, Margaret, Susanna; died eleven April 1240; buried: Aberconwy.’
Very first, allow me to shell out tribute to help you Sharon. Their unique research to possess ‘HBD’, ‘Falls new Shadow’ and ‘The fresh new Reckoning’, achieved until the advent of the net, is actually it is a good. Almost that which you she’s written in you to trilogy stands close test now.
To prove it is not merely me you to definitely believes thus, i would ike to offer one to genealogist who’s a beneficial fan off Sharon: “I’m very keen on Sharon Kay Penman’s instructions. Even though they commonly strictly biographical, I believe much warmer relying on her try to ‘submit this new blanks’ (considering the amount of research she naturally set in her guides), than in actually pointing out certain genealogical sources which i came all over inside my research (I am aware most of us encounter supply like that). To help you those who have not even understand their unique functions, I recommend it extremely very, particularly if you want to get a getting for just what lives is actually eg 800 in years past.”
Pursuing the concerns presented of the Beth, Suzanne and you may Exotic particularly, We begin comparing the latest title from Joanna’s mother (described hereafter, having simple resource due to the fact ‘Clemence’ maybe not ‘Clementia’) through an event to the to-be-queen John. Just after powering up of a lot blind alleys, primarily by way of seeking to get together again this new chronology of a single toward other, We have settled about what pursue. I do not declare that the thing i wrote try decisive in almost any figure or means, therefore the facts are that we will most likely not be yes away from her name.
(a) The latest illegitimate Joanna, child out of “Clemence,” try undoubtedly born from wedlock –– as it is ended up by Honorius III’s decree claiming their unique brightwomen.net bunu okumaya devam edin legitimate into the April 1226, whether or not as opposed to prejudice for the king otherwise field of England (we.elizabeth., providing their particular no-claim compared to that throne). The latest decree, that has been transcribed regarding the new, unpublished Register off Honorius III (Reg. Vat. 13, fol. 122 ), claims inter alia you to definitely “Johannes Rex anglie solutus te genuerit de soluta,” and therefore, I’m informed, means “King John regarding The united kingdomt, whenever single , fathered your of the a single woman.”
This step turned out to be far more advanced than simply I would have thought possible!
It indicates Joanna may have come created no later than 1189 whenever John hitched Isabella away from Gloucester. Their mom, “Clemence” try most likely French or Norman, once the evidence on patent goes off John’s leadership means that Joan are lead regarding Normandy to The united kingdomt from inside the December 1203, to set up having relationships so you’re able to Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth (look for less than). Joanna passed away in the Feb 1237.
(b) John’s legitimate child Joan, by Isabella out-of Angouleme (hitched to help you John for the 1200 within age twelve!), was born on Gloucester to your twenty two July 1210 (understand the Tewkesbury Annals on Rolls Show, vol. thirty six.i, p. 59; the fresh Worcester Annals, ibid., vol. 36.iv, p. 399; together with Rotuli Litterarum Patencium to own John’s Reign, pp. 124, 143). This is the Joan exactly who subsequently married Alexander II out of Scotland and you may she passed away for the 1238, some days after Joanna (this may make up a few of the confusion obvious within one or two women).
